Minutes of the 94th Meeting
of the Elstree Aerodrome Consultative Committee
held on 21st October 2004 at the Aerodrome Restaurant

Present:                  John Houlder,  Montclare Shipping Company
Chris Beney,  ACE
Don Hodgson,  Montclare Shipping Company
Cllr M O’Brien,  Hertsmere BC
Martin Saunders,  Hertsmere Borough Council & County Council
Howard Guard, ACE
Michael Colne, Hertsmere Borough Council
Malcolm Montgomerie, Firecrest
Audrey Holland ,  ACE
Hugh Jones, Ridgeway Road Association
David Harrisberg,  Cabair
Henry Holland-Hibbert ,  ACE

Martin Saunders chaired the meeting, Chris Beney took the minutes.

 

1        Apologies   Rob Reith, Neil Payne, Chris deLashey, Tony Creese  [?others]

2        Minutes of last meeting     Agreed, but discussion of chairman’s role was omitted.

3        Matters arising  The chairman question.
A substantial discussion took place addressing the principle as to whether to move to a permanent/annual appointed chair for the more efficient running of the committee.
There was a certain amount of clarification of views as a result of the discussion but no consensus was reached, though it became clear that the majority felt that we shouldn’t change, at least not without giving other methods of raising efficiency a go.
Several members saw the potential benefit of a change.
The main reason given for change was to enhance effectiveness in following up agreed actions.
In practical terms the possibility of a conflict of interest, or real impartiality, and perhaps especially with a councillor who has specific constituents, was raised. It might be hard to find appropriate (conflict of interest free) candidates.
A strong secretariat could be another approach
A possible limit on years to serve, say two or three at most, was suggested. As was an annual rotation.
We could have non committee members, and Seamus Quilty’s name was mentioned.
Moving to an elected chair rather than one arrived at by consensus would open up the question of who votes, and would constitute a threat to the fairly open membership arrangements that have contributed (with Cabair & aerodrome management) to many of our successes at noise amelioration.
It was suggested that we should consider alternatives to achieve the wished for benefits and several members supported charging the current-scheme ‘rotated’ chairmen with seeing through actions agreed at their meetings.
The concept of the civil service permanent secretary type role was also suggested by the aerodrome but the aerodrome could not provide such a person.
 

4        Helicopter routes clarification.
Pooley’s Guide seems to have different routes from the routes agreed by the committee. The NorthWest arm has substantial curves in Pooley, the committee had previously accepted some deviation, but not quite so much.
The Southern arm has a different route too, especially at the southern end.
The Southern route was intended to widen out trumpet shape south of Caldicote tower. It was agreed that the route north of the tower would follow that agreed by the committee and to ‘trumpet’ further south. The northern route it was agreed that the aerodrome would draw up the present route carefully and also consider the possibility of a route mainly following the M1. John Houlder agreed to circulate both of the routes and the implication of the M1 idea. It was noted that the pilots’ maps do not fully correspond to the committee’s maps and the aerodrome was asked to consider using our maps for the pilots in order to avoid misunderstanding as had happened at Aldenham recently.
A member felt the helicopter training circuit was having its north side ‘kink’ ignored, and so flying nearer to houses. The aerodrome agreed to put ‘keep clear’ on that area on the pilots’ maps.
 

5        Silencers & new training aircraft.  
Steve Read’s letter was tabled (copy attached for those not present). John Houlder said that it had made the planned sound tests less useful, he is pursuing instead AOPA (Aerodrome Owners and Pilots Association) the idea for a manufacturer sponsored series of noise tests, perhaps at Elstree, for a range of light aircraft.
Steve Read’s letter was felt surprising by some. We had been led to believe the diesels were coming. We had been promised silencers with no ifs and buts. We had not yet had satisfactory technical reasons given us, others seemed to be able to use them operationally.
In reply to a question John Houlder said he, technically, couldn’t insist on silencers but he could be in a strong position toward their being fitted.
Good silencing was said to be a legitimate expectation of local residents.
Action secretary to write to Steve Read asking for full technical and financial clarification as to why, having been told silencers will be fitted, they seem to be backing off. Also an explanation for the non viability of the good diesels at Elstree which is a more noise-sensitive aerodrome than Cranfield, where they now are. (David Harrisberg outlined the reason as being more complex check-out procedures and training complications (?layout)).

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6        Complaints.  
Helicopters. The map analysis of reports was tabled, excluding those logged by letter.
The secretary commented on the logged reports:
He congratulated ATC in filling out the forms more fully, especially the follow up action.
He reported that all complaints are still not being logged as one of his (?27June) wasn’t recorded.
He quoted reports 776 and 778 as being on their face illogical and confusing.
Some lacked clarity.
He requested that a. ATC remember the reports are aimed at our committee members to understand. And b. Please can it be made clear whether fixed wing or helicopter is being complained of.
On Fixed wing the cluster of complaints near Aldenham was resolved by a senior person going to see for himself and discovering that Firecrest maps were in error. John Houlder said that no complaints had occurred subsequently. Action aerodrome to ensure all relevant maps show the same information (see item 4 above)
On the matter of the large cluster of complaints from Chris deLashey action John Houlder will analyse and investigate.
The issues of the two major building projects at Wall Hall (University of Hertfordshire) and The Senior Masonic site (International University) to be put on next meeting’s agenda: action.
Howard Guard left at this point.

 

7        Matters raised by members in turn.
Audrey Holland stated her lack of complaints did not reflect the lack of issues, but more the ineffectiveness of complaining. Henry Holland-Hibbert said much the same.
Chris Beney suggested that at some stage, and perhaps once per year, we try to get Steve Reed or a fellow director to join us. Or at least an annual meet-up outside of our meetings.

 

8        Any plans?
1. Handicapped toilets probable.
2. The hardened holding area in Bushey. John Holder had not in fact applied for planning permission. He said he was told that he didn’t need it. But it was not just a surfacing issue, it involved operational extension into the safety overshoot area. And of course obstruction of two public paths. (Cllrs will follow up).
3. The ‘dodgy’ doctor’s portacabin. Hertsmere it seems has refused permission. John Houlder had not supported the application.

 

9    Dates of next two meetings:

The dates of the next meetings of the Elstree Aerodrome Consultative Committee will be
15th February 2005 and Tuesday 21st June 2005 (the latter provisional) both at 5.30 p.m.